The Avid Adventurer

EP16: Camp Blue Sky - What You Need to Know From Our Assistant Director

Joe, the Assistant Director at Camp Blue Sky, offers valuable advice for first-time campers: “Come with a lot of positive mental attitude because it’s going to be a great summer.” He highlights the importance of bringing comfort items to camp to ease homesickness and maintain a positive mindset. For those worried about making new friends, especially shy campers or those arriving without familiar faces, Joe reassures them with tales of the camp’s welcoming atmosphere and engaging icebreaker activities that connect everyone from day one.
 
He provides a sneak peak into a typical day at camp, bustling with activities such as bouldering, kayaking, and themed evening programs suitable for all ages. He also discusses specially tailored backpacking trips that offer fun and appropriate challenges based on camper age.
 
Joe encourages future campers to embrace the summer with enthusiasm and an open mind, ready to dive into new adventures at Camp Blue Sky.
 
Quotes
“If it’s your first time outside of your home, if it’s the first time that you’re staying outside, bring your favorite stuffed animal, bring your favorite toy, bring your favorite pajamas, your favorite blankets… If you’re shy or anything, don’t worry… All of the people here are going to be really, really great for you and really fun people to talk to… And I’m really sure that you’re going to like every single activity, every single meal. So yeah, it’s just a really great time. So try to come with a great sense of positive mental attitude so you can enjoy every single day here at AVID. (02:04 | Joe Lievano) 
“My best recommendation is just be yourself. Talk about things you like. You’re going to meet a lot of people with common interests. (03:05 | Joe Lievano)
“It’s always a little bit overwhelming to come to a place where you don’t know anyone. But it’s always really rewarding. And it has been one of my favorite experiences of my whole life.” (03:58  | Joe Lievano) 
“It’s just going to be a great experience. Come with a lot of positive mental attitude because it’s going to be a great summer.” (12:14 | Joe Lievano)
 
Links
Learn more about Camp Blue Sky:
https://avid4.com/mt-evans-camps
 
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP15: From Harvard School of Divinity to the Cattleman's Land Trust - Finding the Common Threads That Bind Us All Together

“I needed to practice at hearing other people better, and how they engage with the same landscapes that I love, on their terms,” says today’s guest Owen Yager. Learning about and working to represent other people’s stories is the common theme that unites the seemingly disparate elements of Owen’s story. Once he realized that people’s religion and traditions are the ultimate form of story, he went from an English major in undergrad to studying at Harvard Divinity School. As a land steward with Colorado Cattleman’s Land Trust, he works to help create conversations and collaborations between what have historically been oppositional relationships between the agriculture and conservation spaces, and between landowners and the rural citizens who have been traditionally sidelined. 
 
All parties—from private landowners to guides to recreationalists—share the same hopes and goals for the land. Owen works to engage them all to ultimately form a shared vision for cultural and land management of the American West. 
 
On today’s episode of the Avid Adventurer, Owen and host Dave Secunda discuss leading rock climbers Tommy Caldwell and Alex Honnold and whether they are the new Emerson and Thoreau, helping to translate the divine in nature to a new generation. 
 
Quotes
“Those great novels that you read in English class, you’re thinking about the storytelling. And you’re thinking about what fuels you in that story, and religion is that to an extreme. It’s the stories that actually make people do things. It’s the stories that make you go and spend three hours of your morning every Sunday, reflecting and meditating, that make you say grace before you have a meal. Whatever it might be, people take those stories, those traditions and build lives around them in really powerful, really beautiful ways.” (7:22 | Owen Yager) 
“People care about what they think, what they believe, what fuels them. I had this deep-seated sense that I wasn’t good enough at hearing their stories yet. That’s what brought me… to Harvard Divinity School, was this sense that I needed to practice at hearing other people better, and how they engage with the same landscapes that I love, on their terms.” (12:48 | Owen Yager)
“Part of where I’m coming from is a deep love of that space, of engagement with land and animals and an engagement with working land as a space of realizing personal fulfillment. I love the people that I’ve gotten to know in those spaces as good, fun, honest, hardworking people that make incredible partners.” (23:38 | Owen Yager)
“All these people who had power over their landscapes, and deep engagement with their landscapes and deep love for their landscapes, all these people weren’t getting powerfully engaged in conversations that I was seeing. And I really wanted to help with that and to help those folks get heard and help those folks get engaged as equal footing partners not as people to be told what to do but to really empower them in their landscapes.”(25:42 | Owen Yager) 
“There is this shared sense of want for what land management and the concurrent cultural management of the American West should look like. Everybody who’s a stakeholder wants to have healthy wildlife; everybody who’s a stakeholder wants to have a healthy watershed.” (31:02 | Owen Yager) 
 
Links
You can find more information on the Colorado Cattlemen’s Agricultural Land Trust’s working landscape conservation work at ccalt.org, and Owen be reached at owen@ccalt.org
 
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP14: Camp Windy Peak - What You Need to Know From a Seasoned Camper

Advice to first-time campers? "Try everything," says Kendra, a seasoned adventurer at just 15 years old with over 15 camps under her belt. "Because even if it seems scary at the moment, 99% of the time it's actually really fun." Kicking off a series of advice for new campers, Kendra shares insights from her experiences at Avid Adventure’s quintessential sleep-away location, Camp Windy Peak in Bailey, Colorado. She describes a typical day in the Rocky Mountain camp packed with diverse activities, from relaxing yoga and baking to adrenaline-fueled rock climbing and whitewater rafting. She also expresses her fondness for evenings spent playing Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) at camp.
 
Her guidance for newcomers is both sincere and practical—seize every chance to make friends and try out new activities, even those that might initially seem intimidating. Kendra reflects on her own early reservations and the supportive camp community that helped her push past these fears.
 
Looking at the lasting effects of her camp experiences, Kendra acknowledges how they have boosted her social skills and aided her in setting personal goals. She emphasizes that the positive mindset cultivated at camp has been key to her personal development.
 
Quotes
“Some advice I would give is definitely to try and make friends. Because my first year of camp, I was super shy. And I'm like, ‘I don't want to talk to you.’ But everyone there is really nice. And I've actually never had a bad experience. Also, I would advise that you try everything. Because even if it seems scary at the moment, like 99% of the time it's actually really fun. And if you don't do it, you might regret it.” (02:44 | Kendra Ritchie) 
“I personally love bringing a deck of cards because a lot of people there know how to play card games. And if you don't, then it's a conversation starter.” (04:08 | Kendra Ritchie)
“One word that I'd give all of my instructors that I've had is fun. I love all my instructors.” (05:05 | Kendra Ritchie)
“Whenever I'm tree climbing, every single year, I always try to reach a different part of the tree because I cannot climb trees. And that's also like it for rock climbing. So it's just like setting little goals and having a positive mindset. I feel like I've taken a lot of that.” (06:41 | Kendra Ritchie)
 
Links
Learn more about Camp Windy Peak:
https://avid4.com/windy-peak-camps
 
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP13: The Art of Risk Management And The Path to Become the Czar of Stoke

“I get to do something for others and I get to do something for myself,” says Stephen Allen about the balance he strikes in his life as a housing case manager in Boulder, Colorado from 9-5 and rock climbing in his down time. His lifelong love of the outdoors is so infectious he has been dubbed by Avid 4 Adventure campers and their parents as the “Czar of Stoke”. On today’s episode of The Avid Adventurer, he tells host Dave Secunda how he earned his title, including a hilarious story of misunderstanding with one parent in particular. Just as important as getting campers excited for the outdoors is putting them at ease. Stephen explains how he builds trust with his campers by honoring their fear and hesitation.
 
There are a lot of similarities between outdoor sports and therapy, Stephen explains, and campers work on issues such as goal setting, stress management and others. He talks about the benefits of adventure therapy, and the importance of encouraging campers to learn to live with risk, recognize the benefits, and make the best choices for themselves.
 
Quotes
“I love going to the climbing gym after work because I have time to. It’s such a fun way to, after really being in my brain a lot, to drop down in my body, to move, to play. And sometimes after having conversations in my day that can be a test, can be stressful, really dropping into play is kind of how I disconnect with that.” (7:17 | Stephen Allen)
“That was a conscious choice every day; that was not just this natural way of being. It was a choice that I did my best to make every day—and I certainly didn’t make it every day—just to be really excited about what’s going on and to…see what awesome things they were bringing today and pull all that awesomeness out.” (10:25 | Stephen Allen) 
“Riding a mountain bike or even going through a high ropes course, that look nothing like a therapist’s office, totally different, and yet there’s kind of this overlap of what you can get out of those.” (17:49 | Stephen Allen) 
“In addition to empowering kids to choose these active outdoor lifestyles we also want to empower kids to be able to evaluate and choose appropriate risks in their lives.” (22:13 | Stephen Allen)
“Something I would really try to constantly push myself to be in and challenge my co-instructors to be in is to try to imagine what it would be like to have it be your first time.”  (39:59 | Stephen Allen)
 
Links
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP12: Navigating by Head & Heart - A Therapeutic & Outdoor Journey

“The world will only be as small as you let it, until you allow the world to be bigger than you know it,” says Eddie Mockus, licensed psychologist and founder of the Boulder Center for Family and Behavioral Health in Boulder, Colorado. He joins the Avid Adventurer podcast to delve into the power of our thoughts and the importance of managing anxiety while navigating and mitigating risks. Eddie shares how trusting our hearts and bodies as much as our intellect can lead to significant personal growth. He also recounts his own journey of leading with the heart and watching his clients embrace their vulnerabilities and find their rightful place in the world.
 
In a city like Boulder, often dubbed "the epicenter of the Instagram outdoors," the pressures of conforming to a certain aesthetic or level of athleticism can make some feel out of place. Eddie discusses how he assists young people and their families in realizing that there's no single correct way to enjoy the outdoors and that it's accessible to everyone. This environment also offers valuable lessons in listening, distinguishing between perceived and actual risks, and maintaining competence even in discomfort.
 
Eddie stresses that the answers lie within us; we simply need to slow down and listen. In today's episode, he also introduces new therapeutic techniques that go beyond Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), teaching us how to accept negative thoughts and act despite them.
 
Quotes
“Even in these past few years, how big of a deep dive I’ve taken in that direction to really not just practice being a good steward of my thoughts and my actions but really being a good steward of learning my heart and what my heart is telling me and being more heart open and actually allowing things like intuition to guide me, not necessarily being such an academic and using all my logic to guide every move.”(5:15 | Eddie Mockus) 
“Your brain is ultimately in control of a lot of the thoughts that you’ve had. Your past training and programming in life is ultimately in control of the thoughts that you get, but you yourself are actually in more control than you think of what you can focus on.”  (10:17 | Eddie Mockus)
“There’s not a single thing you need to do to be OK. You just are.” (25:57 | Eddie Mockus) 
“When I think of access to the outdoors, what the outdoor community can do or what the outdoor lifestyle can do, it’s a way of just simply connecting with something greater than yourself.” (29:13 | Eddie Mockus)
 
Links
Connect with Eddie Mockus:
www.boulderfamilyhealth.com
drmockus@boulderfamilyhealth.com
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP11: Spirituality, Risk and Learning You Are Enough: An Outdoor Journey

“Being outdoors, I think, ‘Man, this world was created in such a way to glorify God.” The outdoors has taught Hannah Green some invaluable lessons and skills. Growing up a shy kid, hesitant to join in activities for fear of not measuring up, working at Avid 4 Adventures was one of many instances in which pushing past her fears led to some of her greatest life experiences. Hannah joins host Dave Secunda to discuss her calling to minister in the outdoors setting, where, among the diversity of people in the industry, a shared love of the natural world creates common spiritual ground. 
 
Hannah’s story illustrates that choosing faith over fear leads on to great adventures. She explains how she talks herself through her scariest moments, how she’s learned to listen seriously to her gut instinct but also to laugh at herself. Everyone worries that they’re not good enough, but the best way to learn anything new is just by trying. 
 
Patience, endurance, and community are as vital to the outdoors as they are to everyday life. On today’s episode of The Avid Adventurer, she’ll explain how she’s now instilling these values in others.
 
Quotes
“In the past couple of years, I’ve done a lot of work to notice the big and the small. As much as I love Yellowstone and climbing in the Rocky Mountains, I also love the little stream that runs through my neighborhood, and I love the baby ferns that spring up every spring in the park where I work. It took me a long time to realize that I don’t have to fit the ‘outdoorsy’ stereotype to be in the outdoors.” (3:51 | Hannah Green)
“I’ve pursued a lot of things that really scared me and that I was really nervous for, but those have turned out to be the best moments. Some of those things are really big jobs—I was terrified to work for Avid—but those were three of the best summers of my life. But also the small things, like meeting a new friend, or asking a coworker to hang out outside of work, those are really scary things but those have been the most cool things in my life.” (5:47 | Hannah Green)
“I believe this world was created intentionally, so being able to be outdoors and think, ‘Man, this was created in such a way to glorify God and also to bring humans and animals and all living things enjoyment. Being able to not just find quiet in the outdoors but to think wow, these things were so intentionally created for the glory of God and for my enjoyment.” (11:33 | Hannah Green) 
“When I come across something, whether it’s in the outdoors, or just a difficult season in my life, or anything like that, I often think, ‘Hannah, you’ve done harder things than this.’ And even if I haven’t, and this is truly the hardest thing I’ve ever done, I can look back on those hard things and think, ‘Man, one, look at how God brought you through that. Look at how faithful He was in that.’ And secondly, the patience that you learned, the endurance that it took, a lot of those things I learned outside.” (20:19 | Hannah Green) 
 
Links
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP10: Tragedy, Positive Mindset & Finding Yourself Outside - A Sister's Story

“To think, if we had never gone to Avid, then we probably wouldn’t be the same people,” says 12-year-old Kaylin, who joins the Avid Adventurer podcast with her 15-year-old sister Kendra to discuss the personal transformations they’ve each undergone since first enrolling as campers at Avid 4 Adventures. Though neither had any interest in the outdoors originally, they were motivated to attend camp after experiencing a major family loss. On today’s episode, they tell host Dave Secunda what they learned about overcoming obstacles, and how they’ve become more patient, outgoing, judicious and responsible people in their everyday lives. 
 
Positive thinking is more than just chanting feel-good slogans, Kendra explains, it’s about adopting a growth mindset. Kaylin describes the experiment she tried during volleyball practice at school and what it taught her about the power of positive self-talk, and what repelling down the side of a mountain taught her about overcoming fear. They discuss their future career plans, both of which were inspired by their time with Avid and why Kaylin is so passionate about the principles of the Leave No Trace policy.
 
Learn where the girls are headed next and given their new sense of self-reliance and independence, why their mother feels at peace in sending them there. Hear Kendra explain how backpacking changes your brain chemistry and Kaylin’s crazy experience during a flash flood in Wyoming!
 
Quotes
“To think, if we had never gone to ‘Avid,’ then we probably would never have been the same people.” (6:17 | Kaylin) 
“The power of being able to overcome is something that everyone needs in their life. Overcoming, you use it every single day, and whenever you overcome something that means that you’ve either completed the goal, or gotten over a fear, or your life is going to be for the better because you’ve decided to overcome what could have been scaring you or what should have happened sooner but never did.” (11:21 | Kendra)
“Everyone does this, it’s not just a personal thing, but you’re doing something and then you say, ‘I can’t do this. I’m not good enough at this.’ It’s just a negative mindset. Did you ever hear of growth and fixed mindset? That’s a fixed mindset, thinking you’re not going to ever be able to do something. But having a positive mindset definitely changes everything. Thinking you can do something will definitely make you more likely to strive to go.” (17:29 | Kendra) 
“I do volleyball, and I decided to test something. Since I do it twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays, on Monday I decided to cheer myself on whenever I did something good and then on Thursday I didn’t really do anything. And then on Monday, I realized that I did better than I did on Thursday, and so I realized that if you’re cheering yourself on when you’re doing something good then you’re just basically rewarding yourself when you do something good, you know? So, I think it’s better when you just tell yourself, ‘Yeah, good job.’” (20:51 | Kaylin)
“All of these experiences backpacking, even go into the real world. You need to know how to push through, you need to know how to work in a team, you need to know what you like and don’t like.” (28:56 | Kendra)
“It brings my mom a sense of peace knowing that we know how to advocate for ourselves and that we know how to be independent and responsible, even when we’re not around her.” (33:58 | Kendra) 
 
Links
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP09: Living on Both Sides - From Camper to Leadership Team & the Learnings Along the Way

Lucy Kohara's first camping experience with Avid4 Adventure in 2018 completely transformed her life, influencing her interests and shaping who she has become. A few years after her initial experience, she came back as a counselor. This summer, she's excited to take on the role of a support specialist, merging her love for the outdoors with her psychology studies in college. In the latest episode of The Avid Adventurer, Lucille shares unforgettable camp memories with host Dave Secunda, from her time as both a camper and a counselor. She recalls a moment so perfect, she describes it as heavenly.
As a camp leader, she quickly became a popular and trusted confidante, encouraging campers to express themselves and their identities freely, helping them through homesickness and never giving up on them even when they resisted. She insists, though, that as much as they may learn from her, she learns just as much from them.
 
Campers and fellow counselors, they’re all just friends—even family. Learn why disconnecting from social media is key to their connecting with each other, both during their sessions at Camp Blue Sky and beyond. Hear Lucille share anecdotes about some of her standout campers and the lessons they’ve taught her. 
 
Quotes
“When my parents first sent me to camp, at first I thought, ‘Oh, My God, this is going to be the worst thing in the entire world. But it totally changed my outlook on life, changed the things that I liked to do and the person I am now.” (2:53 | Lucille Kohara) 
“I just remember thinking, ‘This is exactly what I would picture heaven to be like, this is what I hope heaven is like. If I die one day, this is what I hope I come back to. It was so surreal.” (14:38 | Lucille Kohara)
“It felt so good knowing that there were so many people who felt like my presence and my support were beneficial to them. I can’t wait to see all those kids this summer because I’m so excited to see how they’ve grown, but I also just can’t wait to help support kids in that same way, whatever special support they may need.” (21:24 | Lucille Kohara)
“The kids are a lot smarter than you think and they definitely have a lot more self-actualization. They’re very self-aware, sometimes. And it can be difficult to express yourself when you feel so different, but how can we celebrate those differences, and how can we show our kids that you don’t need to surround yourself with people who identify exactly the same as you?” (27:39 | Lucille Kohara) 
 
Links
Connect with Lucille Kohara:
Instagram: lucy.kohara
 
Connect with Avid4 Adventure:
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP08: The Common Feeling of Being Outside and Playing in a Rock Band

“I would consider playing live music similar to what climbers feel when doing stuff like free soloing. It’s a performance,” says Joe Lievano, who joins the Avid Adventurer podcast from Pueblo, Mexico to talk about these dual passions. As it turns out, scaling rocks and drumming in a rock band have more in common than one might think. With both, he says, you’re not competing with anyone but yourself, trying to be better with each try, yet you also find a profound connection and sense of community with those around you. In Mexico, he explains, neither music nor rock climbing are particularly popular or well-received. He explains how he brought his mother around to the idea of his pursuing both, and gives advice for parents who are equally nervous to enroll their kids in outdoor sports. 
 
Joe wasn’t always an outdoor enthusiast. Though he discovered rock climbing at the age of 15, he took a long hiatus due to injury and wasn’t passionate about the sport until others took the time to show him the beauty and fun of the outdoors and the importance of preserving it. This summer, he will return the favor for a new group of campers when he returns to Avid4 Adventure as an Assistant Director at Avid’s Blue Sky camp. 
 
There he hopes to recreate the same feeling of welcome and belonging for campers that he felt working with Avid4 Adventure in the past. In this episode, he explains how he plans to create an unforgettable experience for his campers, particularly as a member of the DEI committee. Having been lucky enough to find two life passions, he is eager to help others find theirs, too. 
 
Quotes
“Team-based sports are not my thing. I don’t like competing with another person, or making someone else lose so I can win. So, climbing, that was something I fell in love with because that was only [me] against myself.” (4:44 | Joe Lievano)
“Another thing that really helps out parents is learning a little bit about [the sport]. Many times, you hear something and you have this misconception of it and you can never get that conception of activities out of your mind. So, if your kid wants to climb, to do mountain biking, try to learn a little bit about it. Learn about the actual processes of it, how dangerous that can actually be, the actual dangers of it.” (9:19 | Joe Lievano) 
“It’s just a different language that musicians speak without words. You’re just vibing.” (20:18 | Joe Lievano)
“I got this great experience of knowing a kid had a great time and knowing that my impact during the summer can withstand more years to come. Sometimes at camp you get to teach a kid how to ride a bike. Maybe they’ll never remember this year of school, the teachers they had or the friends they had at elementary, but they’re always going to remember who taught them how to ride a bike, and their first time climbing and their first time mountain biking.” (28:18 | Joe Lievano)
Links
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

EP07: 11 Year Old Jackson on Adventure, Risk & ADHD

Jackson Anderson is a self-described jack-of-all-trades. At any given moment you can find the 11-year-old enjoying everything from mountain biking and rock climbing to playing video games with his friends and even beatboxing! He explains that, as someone with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), he gets bored easily with any one activity. Yet, when he does discover something he’s interested in, he can absorb himself in it for hours on end. 
 
He also has an incredible mind for risk assessment. He understands that fear is part of outdoor experience, and knows when to follow his keen intuition. When approaching any task, whether it’s navigating a mountain trail or settling down to a school assignment, he naturally applies what’s known as the Risk Matrix. He describes an accident that took place during a group mountain biking activity and how it influenced the way he views the sport. 
 
After listening to this episode of The Avid Adventurer, you’ll understand why host Dave Secunda believes Jackson has a bright future in risk management if he wants one. Jackson shares his number one rule for parents to follow when deciding whether to enroll their children in outdoor activities, and the most important thing to remember once their children are enrolled! 
 
Quotes
“I am a jack-of-all-trades when it comes to a really odd skillset.” (2:15 | Jackson Anderson)
“Because I have ADHD my brain gets incredibly bored when I do too much of the same thing. I’ll be playing video games and think, ‘I’m bored of this.’ And then I’ll go hang out with friends or something and say, ‘I’m bored of this.’ And I’ll go back to playing video games.” (6:43 | Jackson Anderson)
“That is one of the pros of the type of ADHD I have. If I want to, I can stay focused on one thing and not even notice if something else happens.” (8:30 | Jackson Anderson) 
“Being scared is a thing. It’s going to happen.” (13:52 | Jackson Anderson)
“Sometimes my brain just says, ‘No.’ Even if I’ve done stuff that’s worse than that and been fine.” (15:12 | Jackson Anderson)
“I look at something and my brain, no matter what type of thing it is, even if it’s writing or reading or something and my brain says, ‘How can this go wrong? What happens if this goes wrong? And what is the probability of it going wrong?’” (17:09 | Jackson Anderson) 
Links
Avid4 Adventure website: www.avid4.com
Avid4 on Instagram: @avid4adventure
Avid4 Adventure on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@avid4adventure
Email the host:  podcast@avid4.com 
Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm